We went through a bit of that a few times over the last few mondays. Mom goes back to work, and Grant goes nuts. What I've taken to doing Monday mornings is going to google images, and pulling up random images that make a schedule of events for the day, always ending with an actual picture of mom (not some random mom off google, just for clarification).

There's usually a picture of someone eating breakfasty foods, a vacuum cleaner, a grocery cart, the park, I have a favorite Homer Simpson sleeping on the couch picture I use for nap time, and then whatever else we are going to do with a picture of mommy at the end. My son will put whatever the sticker of the day is over whatever picture we accomplish until mommy comes home. It has quelled a few of the inconsolable Monday mornings by pointing out where we are, and gives a "timeline" of when mommy will be home.

That's my trick.

www.athomedadconvention.com

This is pretty much the same approach we've taken. I tend to disagree with what someone said on another post, that empathy is over-rated. Perhaps in their family, but in ours it is important to understand and share the feelings we are experiencing. Especially for 4 year olds who are just learning to have these feelings and emotions.

A change of venue has always worked for us. It redirects their attention in a snap!

We feel lucky in a way that we haven't had much of the "No!" phase in our children. They are both pretty mellow, very well mannered kids. We are both pretty mellow parents. When we have to discipline our children, we never spank and never will. We hardly believe in time outs. The isolation time for the time out lasts long enough for us to separate the child from the situation, calm ourself and take a deep breath, if needed, and go a talk about what just happened and offer a little "coaching" for the next time that kind of situation comes up.

While I wouldn't leave my child in a room crying to cry it out, I wouldn't always cave to their game and pick them up and coddle and console them either. You know when a cry is about their game of getting attention or whether they are hurt. If it is a game of getting attention, it doesn't always mean that the child is starving for attention. I'll bet most of the Dads here would tell you that. It could mean that after spending every minute of the day with them, the first second dad turns his attention away, the child cries out for attention. This is why I promote independent play with my kids. Not only can they entertain themselves without having to plop them in front of Sesame Street while I prepare dinner, they are also becoming good self starters.

As for what Dayv said, I sort of do the same thing, but I just talk about it. I just tell them the timeline, "Later, we'll do this, then after that we'll..." or "Tomorrow we're going here and then there..." you get the picture. Sort of let them know ahead of time and things seem to go a lot smoother for us.

Everybody has their own style of parenting. For us, this seems to be working well.

Oh, BTW, Brian, I like your music!

-BrianC

You don't totally understand how empathy works. But that's OK. Not everyone does. (actually, I think you do)

In my listening of you, you call it "everyday nonsense from a toddler". Or when you question that they should be "comforted about every stupid thing they whine about". Don't know what to say about that. Like, where is that coming from? It sounds angry to me, but that's just how it falls on me. Maybe other people don't hear it that way.

When my child doesn't eat anything that's on her plate, I don't use dessert as a reward. Nor do I use empathy. If a child doesn't eat everything on their plate one day that's OK. If a child doesn't eat anything, tell them that's all there is until breakfast in the morning. Eat it while it's still warm. Nobody's leaving the table until you've had something to eat. But we never use dessert as a reward. (How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?) I'd also examine the eating pattern of the day. Timing of the meals and snacks. Involve her in the cooking, if she doesn't do that. It got my kids to eat because they wanted to eat what they made. Maybe you are just a really poor cook! : )

If my child was up that much in a night, I would examine a lot of things. First, her nap time. Does she still do naps? If so, maybe scale back in length of the nap or time of day (too late n the day). Perhaps she watches TV (not necessarily too much) too late in the day and is over stimulated. Yes, I would talk with her and find out what is her problem and not threaten her by taking her teddy bear away or night light away because that's what works for you. You should really find what works for her (and ultimately) both of you. But hey, it works for YOU, so that's what's important to YOU. Call it empathy. I call it communication.

Nobody really said to coddle your kids 24/7. It is part of their development to learn to cope on their own. But, if you observe, they are young and just learning and do need a bit of coaching. Not ALL the time, but some of the time. Your right, I wouldn't get anything done if I ran to them every time they wanted a snack. But that isn't the reality in our house.

Not around to feel their pain? My kids are in school. The parent/teacher meetings have been very pleasant and satisfying to hear as a parent. They are very well adjusted and very well mannered children. I am always available and present to feel their pain, or anything else they might need from me. They know this. I just don't jump at the opportunity to coddle, like you imply we all do. They are getting to the point where they can communicate their needs to me. Do I worry about them while in school? No, not really. Not how you might think. I am very empathetic, but know when to be.

Let me ask you this: What happens when your children go to school and find out they don't have to feel threatened if they don't do something the way the teacher wants them to? No recess for you if you can't color within the lines. OK, poor example, but you get my drift.

Like I pointed out, everybody parents in their own way. It is just that you come in and sort of criticize in your own way and comment about the "everyday nonsense and every stupid thing they whine about". Coming from there, what are we supposed to make of that?

If you can just choose that that's the way some folks parent because that's the way some folks parent and it isn't the way you parent and be good with that, then do so. Then you won't be coming from a space of resistance (and out of resistance comes negativity).

Good luck with the eating and sleeping!

Brian

Toddlers whine about stupid things. They cry if you turn off Sesame Street. They complain when they have to wear a hat. It's a crisis when water is dumped on their head to clean off the shampoo. I'm not going to have an emotional reaction or take it seriously when my daughter throws a fit over something like bedtime (I won't be angry either). Bedtime is bedtime- after a bath, she gets a book, an improvised story, and a lullaby, then night night. I don't have to worry about her getting out of bed any more because she sees that I back up my promises. When I tell her I'll take her teddy bear away, I take it away. It isn't about fear, it's about priorities. What's more important to her, getting out of bed and playing games or keeping her teddy bear?

My child will have consequences if she doesn't behave at school. If I find out that she has been misbehaving, I will punish her at home too. I don't see how punishment has turned into a condemned parenting tool. I completely understand that spanking is off the table for some people, but how can you parent effectively by not punishing? I truly am baffled.

Also, I don't see how the words "nonsense" and "stupid" are offensive. "b.s." is maybe offensive, but I'm speaking honestly. I like to debate, but I hardly think I'm being agressive. I truly admitted ignorance to attachment parenting, and I still don't feel informed. I'll go wikipedia it. If anything, my wife will love it because we parent completely differently. And if there is one thing for certain, parenting should be consistent. That's part of my current problem right now in my house.

Give me a call in about 20 more months and let me know how things are working out. :)

I'm Not a Slacker

I used Karp's book too. My daughter had colic and it was a really rough first three months with her. That was the only thing that got me through it.

And Brian, this conversation is just an extension of my differences with my wife, so I'm already geared up for a debate. I don't have ruffled feathers. I'm just defending my point, as are you. It's really not a big deal. I don't feel critical of you guys at all... just confused. But what I see as that we don't actually have that many differences on the subject, really. Just a difference in attitude; you'll have to forgive me for mine because I'm dealing with a baby and a 3 year old, and it's a difficult time managing them. I will admit.

Most of the time, the "stupid things" that a toddler gets upset about have a root cause that's deeper than "hey, I was watching that!" i.e. they're frustrated because they don't feel like they're being listened to, they're trying to assert their independence, they're scared, they're overstimulated, they're overtired, etc. This may sound too new agey and touchy-feely for ticktock, but I'm constantly amazed by what my daughter can understand. Just because a child doesn't possess the ability to articulate exactly what's going on in their head, doesn't mean they can't understand what you're saying to them. Just acknowledging their frustration or fears, rather than simply steamrolling past them, will go a long way toward developing trust and assuaging a lot of the hysterics that toddlers engage in.

Of course, I have to give credit to "The Happiest Toddler on the Block" for a lot of my "knowledge." My daughter is only 20 months old, but so far we haven't had many rough patches we could get past by using Dr. Karp's book.

--------------------

Sorry, I edited this when I noticed a couple of typos....didn't realize it would move it down to the bottom of the posts...

It seems too simple to be trusted, but it's true --- acknowledging frustration or disagreement can go a long way toward diffusing it. It's true for adults as well as children. Again, that's not only my opinion, but is central to a lot of what Dr. Karp recommends in "The Happiest Toddler on the Block."

It's true that he does that, and the reason he does is to help to illustrate how to best communicate to your child at each stage. I'd recommend reading it and trying a couple of his ideas before dismissing it. It's working pretty well for my daughter.

ticktock, I don't really know your story, so I don't know how you feel about your childhood, and how that affects how you parent. I'm not asking you to spill your story, but I think that's relevant to this topic, and it's been hugely beneficial for me.

Digging into my own childhood/adolescence has helped me learn how I tick (no pun intended), what wounds I still have, what I need to heal from so I can be a whole person who can fully love his kid. We all know those people who have serious hang-ups about seemingly little things, that often are the result of unresolved hurt in their past. One thing I've figured out about myself is how some of the stuff in my early adolescence has hampered my ability to be emotionally vulnerable with those I love--I had to develop a thick skin really quickly, and it made me wary of letting anyone too close. I really think I'm going to be a better dad because I'm dealing with it, rather than inflicting my family with that unresolved hurt.

The whole point is that childhood, even through adolescence, is SO MUCH about developing your trust mechanism. It's why people who are victims of abuse get so messed up by it--people that are supposed to be the most trust-worthy violate trust so severely.

The whole "empathy"/"attachment parenting" model is based on the notion that our kids need a safe place to return to when they face obstacles and hardships in the world. I want my home to be the place they can TRUST that they'll always be loved. That doesn't mean it's the place they'll get everything they want, because that's not love. You don't let your kid eat sugar all day if you love him/her.

So, I'm going to turn the TV off, but I'm not going to call my kid stupid for wanting it on and crying about it, and I'm going to tell him (by holding him, singing to him) that I love him, even if he screams.

Even at this age, my son knows he can always expect me to pick him up, to hold him if he's upset. I believe that's going to make him more independent, because he can explore the world securely knowing that he's not alone.

oh, and thanks for listening to the music. glad you liked it.

-b

cool music for parents:
http://cdbaby.com/brianjoseph4

I appreciate your observations, but my upbringing is not really that much of a psychological factor. I was a pretty good and happy kid, and my parents didn't punish me much. They weren't strict or controlling or abusive, but on the flipside I don't think they guided me enough either. I'm not trying to change their model much, just tweak it because I now know that I wasn't focused under that model.

My parenting ideas comes from John Rosemond's "The NEW Six-Point Plan for Raising Happy, Healthy Children", which was a book that my mother gave me (she is a childhood development administrator at an army Hospital). Rosemond's basic point is that parents put too much focus on their kids, and not enough on their marriage. He thinks that parents have drifted away from the pre-sixties model of parenting, and that's a mistake.

He is where I got the term "benevolent dictator", which means that a family is not a democracy- kids should not be running the show and they don't need to be the all-powerful focus of a family (i.e. don't interrupt when Mommy and Daddy are talking). I pretty much agree with Rosemond on most of his points, which is why I argue his case on public forums. He is way more strict about things like the issue of no TV, but he makes good points.

I shouldn't have to say this, but I would never call my kid "stupid". When I referred to my daughter's actions as stupid, I thought I was speaking among adults who would understand that I didn't literally mean unintelligent or ignorant... more like non-important or silly. I think it's important to distinguish the two because the line is starting to get blurred in the subsequent comments.

I guess the bottom line is that a lot of parenting depends both on who you are and what you read. While reading the description of John Rosemond's book on Amazon.com gives me both the heebies and the jeebies (that's the publisher's fault, I'm sure), I'm going to check it out at the library and see what it's all about.

I would agree that one of the finest lines that a couple has to walk is in balancing the needs of the parents and their marriage with the needs of the child, so maybe I'll be able to learn something from Rosemond.

I did do a quick search, however, on Rosemond's name, and came up with this:

http://www.behavior.org/parenting/index.cfm?page=http%3A//www.behavior.org/parenting/parenting_wyatt_commentary.cfm

Just a counterpoint to his parenting techniques. I'm sure you can find several on Dr. Karp if you look. Sorry, I'm always looking for counter arguments to be sure I've got the whole story. But I'll be picking up one of Rosemond's books to make a decision for myself.

I don't think there is any need to apologize. I was referring to this quote below, which implies that I call my child stupid. I'm not sensitive about it. I just want to clarify that I don't, and never will.

"So, I'm going to turn the TV off, but I'm not going to call my kid stupid for wanting it on and crying about it"

"I strongly believe that whatever parenting style that each parent tends to believe is the correct one will NOT work for every child out there. It is this belief that makes it so hard for me to take people seriously that tend to opine on one specific set of parenting ideals" - Randy F

Hear, hear! I'll just add too that what works when dealing with one child is often impractical or impossible with two or more children in the fray. Even more so the closer they are in age.

Cdn Tim