We hit the same thing at about 4.5: Super-defiance, yelling, talking back non-stop, lot's of anger, even hitting/lashing out. Losing our temper only made it worse. So, my advice:

Be consistent with timeouts. Keep giving them over and over again as many as it takes. Even if they don't seem to work at all. Don't lose your temper. Spanking doesn't work for this either. I admit that I tried it a few times and it only helped for about 30minutes, then he was right back at it again. Don't take it personally. Some days are better than others.

We also tried to reinforce positive behaviour. We made a rules board, ala supernanny. We made magnets with the rules printed on them. He starts the day with 10 magnets. Everytime he breaks a rule, he loses a magnet. At the end of the day, we count how many he has left. When he earns 70 magnets we let him buy a CVS/grocery store toy. This helped a little bit.

I think he is finally growing out of it a little bit.

Just be consistent and don't lose your cool. Be calm, direct and methodical. Buckle up and wear him down, even if it takes months.

I agree with what these guys have said. We have 3 kids, 2 of which are past 5. For each of them, what we did when they were doing their 5 year-old thing was different. Our oldest only responded to spankings...nothing else worked on him. If that's what will work for you, don't let anyone else's opinion about it affect you. That said, our middle, a girl, spanking was the LAST thing to do for her. She responded exactly the opposite of what you wanted if you spanked her. She was our Supper Nanny rewards child. Now we are approaching it with our youngest and will start again (although it looks like the rewards is best for him too -- not sure why the oldest only responded to the spankings). Good luck with your 5 year-old, we all support you here!

Check out my ramblings on life at http://www.sahdguy.blogspot.com/

Great, something else to look forward to my daughter is only 18 months old so I have some time before that wonderful experience.

Guys, thanks for the input, we have tried timeouts, taking away privelages, putting toys in toy jail when he misbehaves, even spanking one or twice. We will definitely give the rule board with magnets a try, that may be a workable plan.

One more question. How do you react in this situation. If we put a toy in jail, or take away privelages, he will respond by saying something like, your not my friend, or I don't like you anymore. He has even said all he wants for christmas is a nice daddy, something he modified when his mother said for christmas she wanted a boy that listened and was a good boy. I try to not react to it at all, since I am pretty sure he doesn't mean it or doesn't really know the meaning of what he is saying, but is there a better way to handle that situation when he says stuff like that?

That is what we have been trying to do, but when they are said after he has stretched every nerve I have those comments get very hard to ignore.

Stay the course. Don't react. Don't get mad. Go into the "zone." And, let it roll off.

When mine says hurtful things like,"You are mean" or "I don't want to be your friend anymore," my wife taught me to just say, "Well, I am sorry to hear that, because Daddy loves you very much. Now go to time out." If he says something else nasty or refuses to go to time out, then we say,"Ok, then that is an extra minute on your time out. It was four minutes, but now it is five." I go as high as 6 minutes, then I threaten to make him sit in time out on his chair in his room (door open) instead of downstairs in the dining room as usual.

Honestly, there is no silver bullet. We still go around and around. Just stick it out and go into the zone mentally, and just be consistent with the time outs. I always hear ignoring the bad behavior is also a really good course, but I know how hard that is too.

I'd suggest you tell him that his words really hurt your feelings. That has worked with my five-year-old in the past. He's just acting out, testing his boundaries. Let him know who's boss but also help him to realize that you have feelings too. Hope that helps!

Because it is the most character-building, two-letter word in the English language, children have the right to hear their parents say "No" at least three times a day.
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Children have the right to find out early in their lives that their parents don't exist to make them happy, but to offer them the opportunity to learn the skills they-children-will need to eventually make themselves happy.
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Children have a right to scream all they want over the decisions their parents make, albeit their parents have the right to confine said screaming to certain areas of their homes.
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Children have the right to find out early that their parents care deeply for them but don't give a hoot what their children think about them at any given moment in time.
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Because it is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, children have the right to hear their parents say "Because I said so" on a regular and frequent basis.
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Because it is the most character-building activity a child can engage in, children have the right to share significantly in the doing of household chores.
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Every child has the right to discover early in life that he isn't the center of the universe (or his family or his parents' lives) that he isn't a big fish in a small pond, that he isn't the Second Coming, and that he's not even-in the total scheme of things-very important at all, no one is, so as to prevent him from becoming an insufferable brat.
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Children have the right to learn to be grateful for what they receive, therefore, they have the right to receive all of what they truly need and very little of what they simply want.
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Children have the right to learn early in their lives that obedience to legitimate authority is not optional, that there are consequences for disobedience, and that said consequences are memorable and, therefore, persuasive.
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Every child has the right to parents who love him/her enough to make sure he/she enjoys all of the above rights.
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To use f***ed up fours and f***ed up fives. Bring on the sensible sixes!
Terrible Twos aren't so bad!
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As with adults who have control issues, letting a child know that they can affect you in a predictable way with bad behaviour might just encourage the behaviour. However, I haven't yet had to test out this hypothesis, and it sounds like Diane has actually had success the other way.

However again, I've had lots of success at playing by throwing my daughter up in the air; not everyone is going to be successful at this.

Thoughts about fatherhood, philosophy, fencing, and hockey about at http://shawn-burns.livejournal.com/

I don't know how successful this is in getting a message across... but it makes me feel better. When my five-year-olds throw a tantrum, sometimes I will flail myself on the ground near them and throw a bigger tantrum about how I am so sorry that they can't always have their way and that they are not the most important thing in my life, etc. I way overreact and make it look incredibly ridiculous.

I've only done this a few times, but the typical response when I look at the kids, is that they are dumbfounded. My daughter had the perfect response one time. She had a fit, then I had my silly fit, then she looked at me with a straight face and said "Oh, daddy, don't be silly!" Then she calmly walked to her room and played with her toys.

I don't think that's a bad idea. I saw Supernanny suggest the same thing about whining. She said to whine back and let them see how silly it is.

Holy crap! Now that is hilarious! I will file that one away for later when my son gets closer to the 4-5 age range. BTW...next time, film it and put it on youtube! ;-)

Randy
Cincinnati, OH
SAHD to Ryder (23 months)