Interesting post, which just slipped under my radar in the What's New section. Hoping that my post bumps it up for others to see.

I can totally see why you're hesitant to add this person to your group. I don't have much to say other than I would not add the individual... I believe it's perfectly OK for you to not turn your group into a sounding board for an angry or bitter person. Many may disagree, but there are plenty of other SAHDs or, even better, other resources out there that can help this person get through their issues without your help.

The way I look at my personal relationships is that I have a limited number of folks/hours in the day that I can devote to others and because of my role my daughter will be impacted by those relationships. I can either expose her to positive energy that I enjoy or negative energy that I somehow feel obligated to. Positive will always win out when I view it that way.

i would just say, "dude this job is tough enough without listening to you bitch. i'm giving you a one-time free bitch session but if you keep it up you'll be talking to blank walls and i don't just me and the AHD group."

I'm going to do my best not to explode at the attitudes already displayed above me.

Gentlemen, until you've lived this nightmare, you have no idea what this man is going through. Having been there, and still residing there, the single worst thing you can do to this man is exclude him. He's hurting, he's living through a pain you can not imagine, and if you have any shred of human decency you will attempt to be a friend, or at the very least a sympathetic ear, to this man crying out.

He's going to say awful things about his ex, I still do. But he needs to get those things out. It's those that have been through this that don't let it out that end up doing stupid things. Trust me, I've stared into that abyss. Be sympathetic, lend an ear, and don't judge. Don't assume that he's going to air it all out at a playgroup either. But if he does, so long as the kids are not within earshot, let him vent. He needs it. You don't need to say a thing.

I hope none of you ever know what it's like, but remember, it could easily be any of you in his shoes (or mine) one day.

-Will
gamingwithbaby.com | all your diapers are belong to us
my flickr

i said i would allow him to "cry it out" as you say. but he needs to get that out in a myriad of places. if you bitch to one person/group all the time it will get old.

or maybe i watch too much MTV.

in all seriousness, i (we?) appreciate the perspective. that's what makes this site so great. i'm not divorced (thanks to counseling) but like jon says, a little PMA (positive mental attitude) goes a long way.

it's a chicken/egg syndrome though: happen people don't want unhappy people bringing them down but unhappt people can't get happy hanging around other unhapper people so they seek out happy people and the circle goes on and on.

being able to express yourself is important.

and knowing when to express yourself is also a valuable asset.

okay, damn.

following that line of thinking i should shut the *uc* up!

You are both right, but your timing about all of this is missing each other in the dark. Will is right about what this guy needs. Please help him out. He needs someone to hear his pain and you guys are the closest thing to peers that he has got right now. Family members are tough because they don't completely relate and the guy can't really let his anger fly as hard when talking to them.

But, here is the deal. The faster you start helping this guy out and giving him some friends, the faster he will be able to stop venting. Give him something positive in his life to think about and talk about. Fill his head and heart with some good vibes to push out some of those bad ones.

In with the good chi through the top of the head and out with the bad chi through the soles of your feet. Or, in this guy's case, let him get the poison out of his mouth while filling his ears and eyes with the good.

The better you handle this, the faster you will have a new committed friend for life. And, you might save someone's life in the process.

There's an amateur Nashville reporter named Lindsay Ferrier, who is laughing her ass off right now.
.........................................
http://www.altparenting.com

let the the guy join. I'm not gonna read his bitch sessions. It's kinda that simple. There have been plenty of bitch sessions that I have not read. It's amazing how easy that is.
On the other hand....
Aren't there post-traumatic divorce sights that are set up specifically for bitching about your ex? As far as I can tell, this isn't it.....or is it? Ooooo Ahahahah (enter scary background music here)

North Carolina Dad's Group
http://lindsaybeans.blogspot.com
http://oneredsquirrelinstatesville.blogspot.com

Matt, this guy is talking about his local playgroup. Not the boards.
..........................................
http://www.altparenting.com

Annon,
This is a tricky question for you,I understand, but since you asked I’ll reply. Is your group solely for Dads or is it a playgroup and socialization for the kids as well? If it is the former then I would say that the needs of the children we all look after, needs to come first. This gentleman is obviously in need of some stability and as Will correctly points out none of us can correctly gauge how he feels. On the other hand I too would be put off by the immediate, “too much information” emails, but I think – and this is my prospective – you should give him a try in the group. You may not mesh with him but one of the others in the group may hit it off with this man and problem solved. Of course he may take off of his own volition you don't know about people. He could also be a boon to the group in an as yet unknown way.

As an AHD that has been excluded at every freaking turn by women and their groups I would be hurt as a Dad, let alone a newly divorced Dad, if I was excluded from the only team I could play on. Nearly all the Dads here at AtHomeDad have had problems socializing and gaining access to a normally female world.

I think it’s great you run a Dads group but you aught to think of what that means for the future and longevity of your group.

Be Seeing You.
Jonathan

err...I knew that. Really I did. Crap.

North Carolina Dad's Group
http://lindsaybeans.blogspot.com
http://oneredsquirrelinstatesville.blogspot.com

Okay. Thanks for not exploding.

Who introduces themselves to a group of strangers with emails that are 75% "that B#@$ this and that B%$^$ that"?? I'm not saying you shouldn't befriend this individual but maybe you should get to know him a little better before starting up a playgroup where your kid is potentially exposed to this kind of vibe.

I say bring him in. Especially if you guys are doing stuff with playdates. It could be real important for his kid(s) to have some time around other kiddos.

We had a situation in our local dad's group not too dissimilar from this.

"Our Guy" was always trying to stir things up. Sometimes moaning and complaining about his family, sometimes griping about religion, politics or other dads in the group.

The group tried to ignore his ranting because we knew that his 3 yr old daughter was only getting socialization during these playgroup times. Even if we were having to endure a little bit of hassle, at least his kid was getting to play with others and getting a break from dear ol' dad.

A man going through a hell you can not imagine, that's who. It's easy to sit behind the safety of a computer screen, with your kids near, and pontificate on matters that you've never had to experience, but as I said, until you have, you have no frame of reference.

It is ignorant and presumptive to assume that this gentleman is going to air out his grievances towards his ex-wife around his, or your, children. By assuming that "your kid is potentially exposed to this kind of vibe," you're assuming the man guilty without even giving him a chance. The last thing in the world this SAHD needs is to be excluded from the brotherhood.

Furthermore, the divorced dad support groups that exist generally only add to the pain that one feels and only makes matters worse. The worst decision I made was seeking these types of groups out. They are often little more that gigantic bitch sessions that make you feel worse and even more helpless. There isn't any help to be garnered from those "support groups" and the single best thing that one can do is to distance oneself from that negativity.

Being in a supportive and welcoming SAHD group will likely do more for him than anything else could. Knowing that there is a place where men only care about their children and nothing else will do wonders for him. Sure, it will be painful at times, him knowing that those around him haven't lived the nightmare that inhabits his waking days, but the support and camaraderie that you show him will, at the very least, help him get past the really dark place that he is in. He will move past it with the help and support of caring individuals around him.

Ultimately it is your decision whether or not you include him in your group. You have to live with that decision. But consider this, this group right here, this collection of misfits, half-wits, and nitwits (I'm looking at you Kev) has done wonders for at least one divorced dad/SAHD. You could do the same thing face-to-face.

-Will
gamingwithbaby.com | all your diapers are belong to us
my flickr

Why do we assume that the women actually is a b*? Gaming, since you shared your story, we know that your issues are real and incredibly sad. We don't know this other guy's.

Let's be honest sometimes relationship problems are a two-way street.

Also if he's a SAHD with a playgroup at least he still has the kid(s). (Hoping of course that that maintains, again, apologies to Gaming)

I think you need to find out (if you haven't) what this guys issues are. Let's not assume he's a saint and the wife is the cause of all world problems.

Josh

SAHD Since August 2005

Remember that it's also easy for you to assume that others have no frame of reference. I disagree that it is ignorant or presumptuous of me to assume that someone obviously angry enough to send emails that state, "Hey I'm so-and-so and my ex-wife is a horrible B@$" to TOTAL STRANGERS that the person is trying to fit in with won't present a negative vibe that can impact the experience of the group and thus the experience my child has- clearly this person does or Anon here wouldn't have posted the question.

I also disagree that we're presuming guilt without giving the man a chance- we're aware of two emails directly from that person's email account that were full of enough pugnacity that the recipient felt the need to wonder about whether on not to expose this person to his kids/playgroup.

Anyway- I have been convinced by the arguments on here that it's worth giving the guy a shot- I think a lot of times we just come across poorly on emails and forums. BUT you need to have the balls to be able to ask him to leave if things don't work out. Of course- if you do that be prepared to have him tell the next playgroup about what a**holes you are and how you didn't give him a chance.

He's an At-Home Dad? Invite him in! There are three sides to every story. In this case, his side, her side and what really happened.

There is what really happened and then there is the story interpretation that both he and she made up of what happened and are living by and are obviously choosing to make each other wrong for what ever reasons.

However, for the Dad's group and playgroup situation, and as a parent, he should be able to see what is best for him and his child(ren) and to know he is not there to win over allies in his situation with his (ex)wife.

Give him at least that. I wouldn't totally shut him out. Then it might seem to him that the whole world is against him. If a fellow AHD can't get support from other AHDs, then where? If the situation then becomes that of a bitch session, then simply say "hey man, this isn't really our business or what we are here for today. He should get that.

Just my .02

BrianC

Do you know the pain of being forcibly separated from your child? I do.
Do you know what it's like to see the look of realization flash across an 18 month old's face as daddy has to leave without her? I do.
Do you know what it's like to hear your child cry out for her daddy as you drive away? I do.
Do you know what it's like to only spend 48 hours a month with your child? I do.
Do you know what it's like to have your visitation dictated by the woman you once professed your love and your life to? I do.
Do you know what it's like when you aren't allowed visitation on your days because it doesn't suit the whims of said woman? I do.
Do you know what it's like having to leave your child with your spouse or with family members for those few precious moments you get in a month because you have to work? I do.
Do you know what it's like only having reliable contact with your child through the phone? I do.
Have you ever had to explain to your child why they don't get to see you enough when they always want more time with you? I have.
Have you ever held your child in your arms as she cried, and begged, and pleaded not to be taken all the way across the country? I have.
Have you tried to bravely explain to your little girl how it will all work out? I have.
Have you tried to convince an eight year old that distance is meaningless when you love someone? I have.
Do you know what the blood from your tongue tastes like as you bite it to keep from losing it in front of your ex? I do.
Do you know how hard it is to be the better person and not be the selfish parent that your ex is? I do.
Do you know what it's like to have a round in the chamber, convinced that it'd be easier for your child not to have a father at all rather than have a monthly visitor? I do.

Sadly, chances are, he will too.

Say what you will about there being two sides to every story. Say what you will about about your belief that just because he vents in his first correspondences, he will at the playgroup. But, until you answer those questions right there, you have to idea what it's like to be him... or me. And thus you have to frame of reference.

If he turns out to be a horrible person, fine. But do the man the decency of giving him the benefit of the doubt. You have nothing to lose.

As is obvious, this strikes an all to familiar chord with me. My wife, son, and I are living this damn nightmare everyday. We know it, and we know what it takes to get through it.

(And on a completely kinda unrelated note, Butters' newest word is "Sissy." Tell me that doesn't get you in the chest.)

-Will
gamingwithbaby.com | all your diapers are belong to us
my flickr

You've got a lot of experience with this and a lot of emotion behind it. As many have said, we here on the board feel for you.

Wow. And Yes, Will, there is a lot there that I don't ever want to deal with. My offer (and that of anyone else here, I am sure) still stands -- If there is anything I can do... legally...

But I have seen a lot of valid responses and reactions above. As a matter of fact, none of them should be discounted.

I had a similar situation in Boy Scouts recently, though, that I think might address this. The father divorced and was still bringing his son to the meetings. But he spent most of his time -- when we should have been dealing with the boys -- complaining about his ex. I pulled him aside and simply told him that he and I and any other dads could talk about it later, but that I didn't want the boys to hear all this bitterness about one boy's mother at the meetings.

So, my thought is to invite the guy, like Will and everyone else says, and give him a chance. This SAHD group might be exactly what he needs to pull out and change his direction in life. If he only wants to complain about his ex, pull him aside and invite him out for a beer or dinner or something where he can talk and talk and talk. If he's a jerk, that'll show up. If he's a great guy, that'll show up, too.

It's gotta be hell guys. I don't want it. Ever.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. You need to contact me if you get that far down again. And, you know the abyss-staring is what I am talking about. You don't know me from Adam, but I will talk to you and listen to all that you have to say. I swear, don't make me come to your freakin funeral, because I will. And, I will personally yank your fat ass out of the casket and kick you repeatedly in it, while yelling, "She wins, she wins, she wins...!!"

I appreciate everyone staying respectful in the above discussion. It was posted anonymously, which means it is usually a "sticky" topic. Six months ago, this thread might have gotten out of hand.

I agree with BrianC and SFoster's comments above. Invite him to the playgroup and if there is too much negativity (or any at all), pull him aside and let him know that. Your local discussion board (if you have one) or a DNO would be a better place for him to vent.
Jim

You can always kick him out if he doesn't stop bitching.

I'm Not a Slacker

My brother in law suffered depression after his x, we call SATAN , fd with his life. He choose the final desicision and the only looser in that was his kids. They are emotionally devistated years after and they hate her for what she did.
Never think of it again for your sons sake.

Only those that've come to the edge know what it's like. I won't do that to Sara. I won't do that to Al. I won't do that to my wife. And to paraphrase the great GySgt Highway in Heartbreak Ridge, I'm never going to give the bitch the satisfaction.

And we call her a harpy.

-Will
gamingwithbaby.com | all your diapers are belong to us
my flickr