be flamed Jon, haha.

C'mon, if this were a rule in this case they would have used it to begin with in hopes the guy just got lost. Would have been the perfect brush off loophole before having to play hardball. The fact that the group took a vote means they premeditated a verdict, and without even meeting the guy or his child. The reasons they give are further obsurd and they fully deserve all the bashing they're getting and will continue to get by the polls, press and others. The poll at 80% did surprise me, likely more on sympathy points.
This type of exclusionism with 'mommy' groups is happening everywhere, it is within their rights however lame it may be. Unfortunate that the biggest victims in this end up being children. Hopefully this will open some eyes.

First of all, that guy looks a tad creepy to me. Perhaps the ladies saw his picture before they banned him. Maybe he should've sent them a photo of Hemingway instead. ;-)

I'm a big believer in freedom of association. Close-minded people miss out on a lot because of their close-mindedness, but it's their choice/mistake to make. So, if the moms want to have an all-female playgroup, that's their business.

On the other hand, I know how alienated I've felt as a SAHD. I'm an oddity to most, and a lot of people will be stopped dead in a conversation once they hear what I do with my days. Thankfully, it's been about 4 years since I started and I have lots of friends--both male and female--that will let their kids play with mine, and put up with my company.

If were I in this SAHD's shoes and had been spurned by the mommies, I would've looked for friends at the local library's story time, or at a local park (following ticktock's advice), or perhaps begin attending a local church (maybe not this one) in an attempt to connect to others and find playmates for my kid. I would not have contacted the media and made a stink though.

So, IMO neither party did the right thing.

really. That is a silly rule to get booted for not participating. There can be a hundred reasons why a dad can be a member for a period of time and not make a meeting. Not to mention that with some of the vibes this dad was getting he probably felt like kind of out of place. I can see it taking some time to get up the nerve to go to a meeting where you know for a fact you're going to be the only dad.

I can't tell you how many dads that are members of my group and our chapters that tell me how much they get out of just being a member and relating to other dads in their same position. We have members we only see once a year, there is no way I would boot someone for not attending a weekly playgroup. We as dad’s groups organizers have to be careful for sure, but this kind of thing is over the top. Don't be part of the problem, be part of the solution. There's enough of this kind of crap with the moms' groups out there. Hope that wasn't too hot for you, but I'm passionate about this type of thing.

Here is part of the response I received from the reporter who wrote the article;

There has been a flood of email from people taking the moms' group to task for excluding dads and about 90 per cent of the writers are women, several of whom have invited Mr. Kaselj to join their parent groups. In fact, the women who originally started the group in question told me it was intended for parents of both genders until the current organizer got control of it.

A follow-up story will be published tomorrow( Friday, October 17) and you might find it interesting.

I personally I'm looking forward to reading the follow up.

Mike Stilwell
Daddyshome, Inc.
DC Metro Dads

If the situation were tweaked a little and things were flipped around, we'd be hearing "foul" cried from Hollywood to Washington and on every female dominated talk show in between. We have many times over already.

In practice it's no less a double standard and discrimination. If this happened in the public sector it would be a discrimination violation and probable law suit. In principle it's still the same thing in an example like this, save whatever private club/group exemptions apply. Eventually a discrimination case like this could come about and the law will be specified.

Any and all meet-up groups can and absolutely should be doing background checks on all their members, especially any parents groups. Making ties with the community and taking other precautions would also be highly advisable. The course these women took and the excuses given are simply inconsiderate and unmindful.

The type of logic used by these mothers, were it the prevailing logic of society, would socially pave a road to nowhere. Things are bad enough and not what I have in mind or hopes for my kids future.

Mike,
Thanks for the article and info, very interesting.

You got it. If it gets used enough, I'll refine it into provinces or other sub areas...

I *mostly* thought it was a joke.
Being an Internet forum you just never know with those smileys and just where and how they were intended.
Like I said, I was just looking out for the other guy and when Stilwell posts something, it's a valid point worth reading.
-MileHighDad

Not the same you say? Of course it isn't. But the point is valid nonetheless. There are places where discrimination is appropriate. Personally I think Mr. Kaseji should sue for the "safety of the children" comment as being liable or at the least slanderous, but I think he should be happy he isn't subjecting his kids to that sort of bias on a regular basis.

I'm torn here really as both sides haven't exactly distinguished themselves as being more in the right. The mommy's group is more at fault for claiming it was due to lack of attendance and THEN also claiming for the safety of the children. Which is it? How can someone who signed up but never showed up be a threat? Or is the real threat that he actually might show up? Seems to me he pissed off the group's head Nazi and she decided to make an example out of him and cement her power base. But that could just be me.

As for him? If she truly was emailing him 5x/day, why didn't he respond and explain himself? Sick kid, visiting in-laws, wife out of town on business. There are dozens of perfectly good reasons why he might have missed the previous meetings. BTW, how many meet-ups did he miss? It bothers me that whoever wrote this piece didn't find out more before they went to print, but probably the truth wasn't nearly as inflammatory as half the truth would be. Me being the cynic that I am, I'm willing to bet this was a straight up dollars and sense decision by the newspaper. Too many dollars to be made and not much sense in avoiding capitalizing on a sensitive issue to sell a few newspapers.

Making it look difficult. Living the dream.

While we're at it, I just looked to see how many parenting groups meetup.com has listed for Surry, BC.

There are 35.

Including one called "The Surry Moms and Dads Meet Up Group"

http://www.meetup.com/cities/ca/bc/surrey/groups/family/?radius=25.0

Perhaps rather than make an issue out of this the guy could just join another group???

Since he had access to calendars and mailing lists, why not start his booting out process by cutting off his access? If he complains, then at least he has shown an interest in not getting booted. Like the thread about sex toys, if he isn't interested he shouldn't jump in the group or discussion.

Personally, I think he's looking for attention and has been from the day he signed up. How better to get attention from women than join an all women's group? When that well dries up due to his fear of whatever as his excuse for lack of attendance, he then cries foul to the newspaper to get yet more attention. It's a win-win.

IMHO, I don't think any of this merited a newspaper article, but the group in question should have been honest with him up front. Better awkward one time only conversations than wondering what some lurker is doing with the club mailing list.

Making it look difficult. Living the dream.

This is no different than She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named and her stunt towards SAHDs. And the assertion that were roles reversed it would be shouted from one side of the continent to the other is absolutely correct. This is yet another example of acceptable sexism.

-Will
gamingwithbaby.com | all your diapers are belong to us
my flickr
BRING BACK THE IRRELEVANCE!!!!

Sorry for the delay in getting back with this link, regular life got in the way of me sending this in. Gee, I hope I won't get booted for not responding sooner. (tongue planted firmly in cheek)

Here’s the link to the follow up article;

http://www.canada.com/surreynow/news/story.html?id=7136c8f9-b96a-4609-9cd0-5d5ad2e2abba

While the group leader did not respond to repeated requests for a comment, I think you will find a comment made by a group member very telling.

Jon, and any other group leader be it Meet-up or any other group, we as group leaders should think long and hard before just booting someone for not showing up at an event. There are many ways of weeding out the crazies, for lack of a better term, or ways to help with the membership monitoring process, to just purge everyone after a certain time is hurting the efforts. Why? Because many dads have a hard time with their new position, they aren't comfortable. Some don't get out to meetings and playgroups. Some don't post every day, week, moth or even every year. That doesn’t make them bad members, dads, or parents. I can't tell you how many wives of sahd's that are members of my group who print out the emails from the group and give them to their husband. They almost all have told me how much their husbands get from reading these emails and how it helps them to know they aren’t alone. I would never think of booting these wives, they don’t come to playgroups or outings. My point is that we should be more open to different ways of memberships that can have just as much value to these dads, or mom’s for that matter. Not everyone is as open as others and feel comfortable enough to attend an event.

I will tell you that when a dad gets booted, they are coming back. They wouldn’t want to be part of a group that would boot them for just not showing up or posting. You have to realize that some parents operate in different ways. It doesn’t make them a bad person, or a freak. And if it really is the vigilance of the group organizers to boot folks that don’t show up, have you ever checked up on the members that do? Do you really think that just by showing up makes them OK? I’m mean if I was going to really farm these lists, calendars, events, etc., I would sure as hell show up and get folks comfortable with me. You might be unpleasantly surprised if you checked your “active” membership lists against your state’s sex offender lists, as an example. If you are holding members to high standard for not showing up, then I would think that you would hold the active members to just as high, if not a higher standard.

Hope that makes my comments clearer,

Mike Stilwell
Daddyshome, Inc.
DC Metro Dads

Mike- We do actually keep pretty good tabs on our active membership, but thanks for your concern.

Perhaps you're missing the point of the Meetup website that this guy was on. It's not a "club" or "playgroup"- it's a website called "meetup" that is useful only for "meeting up" with folks. The emails this guy was getting weren't general parenting emails or whatever- they were emails inviting him to specific events that he was being asked to RSVP to. I agree that there are and should be differences between different types of groups. But "meetup" isn't an internet support club- it's a tool to be used to meet people in the real world. If you're not using it to meet people then you're NOT a good meetup group member and you should be booted. You can use the extra bandwidth to join other groups that are more suited to your needs.

Hi all,

My name is Rick Kaselj, I am the dad that the article was written about.

Rick Kaselj
www.HealingThroughMovment.com

Despite my having been a bit on the glass is half empty side of your argument and having said some harsh things about you, I support your efforts to find like-minded parents, not just dads to network with. Sadly, after all the fighting was done for women to gain some sort of workplace equality, they tend to forget how bad it sucked when it comes time to boot some poor man out of the she-woman-man-hater's club. (How long ago were the "Little Rascals" on? Seems like they got the jump on all of us.)

Anyway, welcome to the wonderful world of gender discrimination....from the other side of it. Sorry you had to find out the hard way that women only expect US to be open-minded about their abilities to perform non-traditional roles, and not the other way around.

Did you find a group of more open-minded people there yet? Hope so. If not, feel free to come here and bitch slap those of us who wrongfully spoke out of turn about you and your adventures, myself ESPECIALLY included.

Alby

Making it look difficult. Living the dream.

JonMcP - Someone from the forum e-mailed me and let me know the discussion is on.

I have kept quiet on things. I had gotten a little crazy there for a while. I was amazed at the discussion this issue has created.

I am working with one of the originators of the group that I was part of to see if we could start a new group. There is one other group in our area but it does not look very active.

I am an openned minded individual and do not mind a discussion. I have learned a lot from this situation.

Rick Kaselj
www.HealingThroughMovement.com