I read the posts about the wife with no libido. I wrote about this on the Hartford page for the national Examiner.com. The post link is:
What I want to know is: Is it okay to cheat if your wife never wants to have sex with you?
I am on the fence about this. Fortunately, I do get it occasionally and am not looking to cheat. But I am really torn about what I would do if I never got it.
dave
Al 14th Annual At Home Dad Convention www.athomedadconvention.com
Have to agree with Dowski on this one. If someone was contemplating cheating, they should consider the alternative; Would they be okay with their wife going outside the marriage for satisfaction? Personally if it ever reached that point in my marriage, first I would go through counselling, and if that didn't work, then discuss divorce.
I've been tempted several times during my 22 years of marriage. But I don't want to risk losing this great gig I have. If I did and wife caught me (eventually she'll find out), she'd kick me out of the house. Then, I'd have to really work for a living.
Yeah it has been frustrating not receiving as much sex as I want from my wife, but that doesn't justify cheating. If I did, I couldn't live with myself. And then there is the issue of the kids and what they would think of me. Furthermore, it has been frustrating living and dealing with one woman, why bring another woman into my life? 
Have you heard about this new book, "Why Women Have Sex?" According to this book, there are 237 reasons why women have sex. And most of them have little to do with romance or pleasure. 1006 women were interviewed for this book. I wonder how many of these women were married.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/sep/28/sex-women-relationships-tanya-gold
How about a book on "Why a Woman Should Have More Sex With Her Husband?" Should we start a list of reasons.
It's a myth about cold showers. The cold shower stems from the Victorian notion that an overheating causes obsesive sex drive. In facta cold shower will get your heart rate up and your blood flowing, a warm one will calm you down. Cheating? I belive that is what Nevada is for.
Be Seeing You.
That question can only be answered one way. The word "cheat" automatically implies that the action is wrong. No real moral grey area. Different than say, stealing. The old, "if your family is starving is it ok to steal a loaf of bread?" premise doesn't quite work. If your family is starving is it ok to get laid behind their back? Hmmm. www.musingsfromthebigpink.blogspot.com It's funny! I think . . . sometimes. No wait it's definitely funny. Mostly.
Lack of Libido aside, there is more to the marriage and family than the sexual relationship between husband and wife. Love, romance and intimacy can take shape in many forms beyond the physical manifestation of sex/love making. Try and find the connection to that lack of intimacy through other channels with your wife first.
I know the feeling, I just asked my wife to buy me a fleshlight (www.fleshlight.com), I'm not walking into the store to buy one. She got the hint and is making a doctors appointment to see what can be done about her libido. Went down hill once she had our first born, read it can take up to a year depending on how much stress she went thru giving birth.
I should add don't cheat to my Guide on how to be a stay at home dad.
http://modestostayathomedads.blogspot.com/2009/10/guide-to-being-at-stay-at-home-dad-sahd.html
I've come to discover that my truth is not your truth (and I mean the general "you" here, not anyone specifically.)
But here's my truth: cheating is never okay. Ever. A marriage, or civil union, or common-law relationship, or whatever word you want to use to categorize and label your partnership is based on so much more than just sex. Trust, compassion, communication, respect, love, et cetera. I would find it to be nearly impossible (if not entirely impossible) to be a trusting husband, or have any respect for my partner, if infidelity had occurred. I do not believe that sex (or it's lack) should be grounds for divorce, simply because I do not feel that sex is a necessary component of a relationship. For me, it is another activity that my wife and I enjoy doing together, for fun or procreation. I'm not going to give up the relationship if I don't get to go bowling every couple months.
I feel sadness for the men (and women) in our society who feel that they "need" it to be happy. I think that if we, as a society, could all get over our damaging infatuation with sex, we would all benefit from stronger relationships built on stronger foundations. I have heard far too many guys saying, "I'm not happy with her, but she's just too hot to break up with. I'll never find anyone else that hot," and it just makes me sad. Be with someone for who they are, rather than the physical gratification you get.
**
F.A.P.P.A.H. - Fathers As Primary Parent At Home
In fact, I think sex is overrated in this society. Sometimes I think it gets almost worshipped like a god, and when that happens it causes at least as many problems in society as it does pleasure. I'm a bit old fashioned, but I believe it should only exist within a marriage, between two people. And it works best when it's love rather than lust. When it's lust, it's all about how much you get. When it's love, it's about what you can give. I can be hard to live with sometimes - once I drove my wife's car through standing water over the road because I thought I could make it, but you guessed it, I got stuck, the car was ruined...Most women would never marry such an idiot! And I sure as hell ain't much to look at. But my wife has told me there are only two ways she would ever think about divorcing me, and cheating is one of them.
So my 2 cents is this: if you're not "getting some," try your best to talk it out and find out why. If it's so serious that it can't be resolved, there are bound to be bigger issues to be addressed. I mean, I think most men have times when they feel they aren't getting sex as often as they'd like to, even me. Hello, I'm a GUY! If I were to get as much sex as I think I need, my wife would have to quit her job too, and my kids would spend 90% of the day at Grandma's! But of course one has to be reasonable. Talking it out and working on compromise can help ensure that both he and she both give and get adequately. If it does end in divorce, just make sure it's not just because one of you isn't "getting it."
Cheating will make a bad relationship worse, like pouring gasoline on a fire that's already out of control. It's more worth the trouble to find the extinguisher, or failing that, call the Fire Dept. - i.e. get professional help, like counseling.
So why don't they call it mooching when the wife stays home?
I have posted a number of times on the "wife has no libido" thread and this topic is interesting. I am shocked that FAPPAH feels that sex is not a necessary component of a relationship and think that he is very much in the minority among men with that view. I do not condone infidelity, escpecially among committed couples. But I have learned not to be judgmental when you don't know what people are going through. My wife shut down emotionally and physically several years ago. No amount of romance, backing off, talking gently to her, letting her know the pain I am in has changed a thing. She just thinks that this is what happens to couples after many years of marriage. In other words, it is normal, which I complketely disagree with. If you are not physically intimate with your partner, then you are roommates.
Some years ago I had the opportunity to cheat with a beautiful coworker who was unhappy in her marriage. I turned her down and she was angry with me. I was happy in my marriage. After several years of almost no sex, I don't know how I would react if a similar situation came along today. The pain a man feels when his wife is not intimate with him is great and it greatly harms the marriage, no matter how good everything else is. Don't judge someone unless you have walked a mile in their shoes. Why haven't I left? When there are children involved, it is very difficult, especially if one of them has some important emotional issues. I would like to move on because I feel my wife doesn't love me but I don't feel I can at this time. I have posted a couple of articles that express better than I can how a lack of sex can harm a marriage.
It is never OK to cheat. In my first marriage I found out that my wife cheated on me all the time. Must of been dense. We had sex every day for the first 30 months of our marriage and believe me, it about killed me. Talk about feeling like a piece of meat. When I finally found out she was cheating, I was shocked, hurt and devestaded. Get this! We went to a marriage counselor and you guessed it; she slept with him. Finally got a divorce. I would never inflict that pain on another human being.
I have been happily married for 28 years and don't get "it" near what I had the first time. I have had long droughts myself. Kept up the communication and talking, but in the end just had to learn more about my wife. I can tell you this.....a sure fire way for me to get some wild, hot sex is to take my wife dancing. Have no idea why it works, but she does like to dance and she just seems to me more receptive after a night of dancing. A movie, won't do it, dinner out won't do it, a night at a bar won't do it----she just goes to sleep. You just have to find something that works.
It was not my intention to judge anyone, and I apologize if that's how I came across.
I wasn't saying that married couples don't need strong sexual intimacy. On the contrary, in a perfect world, this is the only form that sex would have at all. The importance of sex in a marriage should not be downplayed. But it shouldn't be blown out of proportion, either. Sex is a very vital component to a successful marriage, but it is only one component; it should not be the whole basis of the entire marriage.
I know I have used what sounds like a lot of cliche's (talk it out, find the problem, counseling, etc.) and I know they will not work in every situation. Some marriages are simply not salvageable. My brother has faced this hard truth twice. If a marriage ends, it ends. But the whole reason it ends shoud not be just because the Mrs. wasn't giving it to you in the sack. There is always a bigger reason that sex stops, and sometimes it's even the man that loses desrie first. I was just saying that efforts should be made to discover the true cause. This may lead to finding a cure, or it may lead to the discovery of truly irreconcilable differences. Either way, the answer is to be found in the hearts and minds, not in the pants.
So why don't they call it mooching when the wife stays home?
FAPPAH -- Did you really equate bowling to sex in your post? And "Sex is another activity that my wife and I enjoy doing together..." You mean like playing bunco or grocery shopping together? Do you really place it all on the same level? Good grief!
You said, "Be with someone for who they are, rather than the physical gratification you get." Yeah ummm, those someones are called FRIENDS, not spouses or lovers.
I'm guessing you have sex with your wife at least occasionally, which is more than a lot of other people on this post. Geez, no one gets married to a person they have lots of sex with, but do not like as a person. Come on! Give us all a bit more credit. But I can guarantee that 99% of the men on here would have never married their wives if they knew sex would be nonexistent soon after. There are too many women in this world to choose from who are good people AND like sex.
I hate to burst your nonsexual bubble, but any counselor will say that sex is the barometer of how healthy a marriage is.
I quote, "Sex is necessary for a close, intimate marriage relationship. Typically, if you are healthy sexually, you are healthy in all other areas."
Of course there is more to a marriage than sex. Any idiot knows that. But if you're in a marriage without sex, you're simply roommates with the same last name.
People make mistakes. Sometimes they marry the wrong person. Should you have to live out the remainder of your days as if you were sentenced to life in prison? It is the smug, or perhaps religious person who married the "right" partner and lives a satisfactory life who can preach, "You took vows. Stick it out. Make it work. Accept mediocrity..." and any other ignorant comment that one makes when they have absolutely no idea what it's like to live your hellish life each day.
And no, cheating is not right unless you clear it with your spouse first and they are okay with it. It is selfish, cowardly and disrespectful. And way worse than divorce imo.
It is neither smug nor preachy to remind someone to be true to his word. I can't speak for women, so please do not take it as sexist when I say it is the measure of a man. A man is his word.
As for sticking it out and life being hell in a mistaken marriage, I'll leave it to others to hash out exit or resolution strategies. In my experience, situations like that arise from one or both parties not making good on their initial promises and intent. In short, they are not being good to one another. And, yes, that does make life hell. But there are ways to address that in good faith.
No marriage is without obstacles. The best marriages, however, seem to be ones that have faced some of the biggest challenges. Isn't that the way with all great achievements? A gold medal gymnast doesn't win by doing easy somersaults. She wins by nailing the moves with the highest degree of difficulty. Similarly, people don't run marathons because they are easy. They run to prove to themselves that they can muster the kind of discipline needed to finish. They earn their pride in their achievement. They can't do that if they cheat.
People go through rough times in their marriages. And, yes, some people got married prematurely. Then sometimes only one — or neither — matures sufficiently to stay married. But someone asking the question if it is okay to cheat sounds to me like someone who doesn't really believe the answer will be yes. And that is the mark of a workable degree of maturity. If his wife has as much, then there is great hope for them to pull together and work their way back to marital health.
That's what I'm talking about. It isn't smug. It's tough. It's realistic. It's helping a brother kick himself in the butt and get the job done. And it's exactly what a lot of us are here for. When our strength is running low, we dip into the collective pool and borrow from each other.
"Sex is a very vital component to a successful marriage"
Alan, I agree with you on this. I also agree that it's not the only vital component. However, no matter how you slice it, a marriage cannot be healthy or survive without a vital component like sex. Yes, the couple should work on whatever causes are behind the lack of intimacy, but from what I've read on the other forum (wife has no libido), sometimes she just isn't interested anymore. What then? The guy's choices are to suffer in a sexless marriage, cheat, or get divorced. With kids involved, none of these choices are good. I've been going through this myself (she says she's attracted to me and interested in making love, but when it comes down to it, it doesn't happen), but fortunately my wife and I do not have children...
I would say it's urgent that you get to the bottom of things before you have children, if you plan to have any. Can she give a reason she isn't interested or that she isn't willing to try and discover it - it's entirely possible she doesn't know the reason herself. If she is not willing to try to see it from your perspective and/or be completely honest with you, then there is definitely a bigger problem than she just doesn't want it anymore. That is where outside help is needed, such as counseling or a visit to her doctor. And if she is unwilling to do THAT... then you would not be out of line to question how important to her your marriage really is. I wish I was better qualified to give the best advice, whether to divorce or to find a way to endure a loveless marriage, but I won't attempt to do so. But earlier in this thread I said that cheating would pour gasoline on the fire, and I still stand by that.
And speaking of seeing it from your perspective, that of course is a two-way street. Don't want to sound like I'm just on the wife's case.
So why don't they call it mooching when the wife stays home?
Sex with your wife, is very important, it is intimate, and reflects
the union you have. It, in my opinion, it only happens in this setting
and no where else (even though we might be tempted). Not getting
sex with your wife attacks this union and because a husband wants to
be desired by his wife, his feeling of being loved or having worth is harmed. At the end of the day though, I am either a man of my word, or I am not. If not having sex with my wife leads me to fofeit that, then I have little left and don't deserve much respect indeed.
I'm not married but I take marriage very seriously...that's why I'm nit planning to marry. Everyone gets married and forgets that it is a binding union between a husband, a wife, and God. All your answers are in the Bible. It is both husband and wifes matrimonial duty to pleasure each other and failure to do so constitutes disobedience to vows said before God. Now, I do think that you should be understanding a little if either party isn't in the mood, but to NEVER give it up? That's a sin! Lol. However, cheating is also disobedient sooo this is where we come to our impasse.
You can either be the one who's at fault for any problems(assuming you've made every attempt to get some), and get blamed for ruining the relationship; or you can let it be her fault. And a friend tip: everything in life is about your approach. Most women welcome open conversations as prevention to future problems. I can almost guarantee that if you sit down and have a heart to heart with your spouse and tell them that their unwillingness to please you even a little is giving you thoughts of infidelity....they'd get it together QUICK!
WAHM who respects and appreciates SAHDs!
So what do you do when your wife asks you if someone is "just a friend"?
As a SAHD, I do work. I am a professor for an online allied health school. As part of my job and for the business I own, I travel from time to time to conventions. Well, as you may or may not be aware, in healthcare, there are probably 4 to 1 females to males, or even more. So most of the people that I see at these conventions are female. I recently went to a convention in Atlanta for my business to try and sell my services to new clients. At that meeting, a colleague of mine (female) asked if I wanted to go with her to see a musical that was in town. Being that I was there by myself and didn't know that many people, I said yes. It was strictly platonic and there were no intentions on either side. This person is also from the same town as me and we occasionally have lunch to talk about our jobs.
When I got home, I was telling my wife about the musical and all and she asks "Is ........ just a friend"? She said it in a way that indicated what she was really asking "Are you sleeping with her"? I have to admit, I was (and still am) a little ticked off. I have not hidden the fact that I do have lunch with this lady from time to time and never hid the fact that I went to the musical with this lady. Am I over reacting by being upset that she asked me this? After all, at least 80% of the people in my field are women and I'm going to see them at these meetings. That doesn't mean that I'm sleeping with them.
I post in this thread because of the cheating. Is it ok to cheat? I don't believe so, but hell, if I'm already being accused of it, or being questioned about it, why shouldn't I? She obviously doesn't trust me.
@reactor69:
Your wife just needs reassurance. Admit it, if it were her meeting a guy for lunch and going out to a musical, you would have a question burning in the back of your mind. Don't take it as an offense that she thinks you're cheating. She isn't really accusing you, she just needs reassurance.
We all need reassurnace from time to time. Giving it is a good way to keep the marriage healthy. Just assure her you and this woman are just friends. It wouldn't hurt to take your wife to one of these lunches so she can see how you two interact. I believe spouses should get to know one anothers friends, anyway.
It's not a matter of trust, but of doubt. It's more about her confidence in herself than distrust of you.
Joined: 2009-09-14
Dad Points: 91