I'm writing an article on fathers at the playground and would love to get your opinions & stories. As a stay-at-home dad myself I've noticed the division between men and women at the playground. Are men just less social? Or are mom's groups less inclusive of men? I would love to hear some of your experiences.
Men, Women & the Playground Divide
The short answer...
The short answer to your two questions is yes:) Men, IMO, tend to be task oriented like "watch my kids." Keep in mind that I see WAY more Moms than Dads but I see A LOT of women that just plain ignore their kids when they are out and about. Whether that be because of a F2F discussion, on the phone or texting. Maybe it is just me but my #1 goal is to watch and interact with my kids. What a novel idea! I have one person that I feel comfortable having a "playgroup" with and that is because her #1 goal is the same as mine. Yes we talk but it is intermittent and rarely with eye contact as we both are watching the kids.
Not mention that most women think men are incompetent when it comes to watching/caring for kids. One mom's jaw dropped open when her kid hurt herself and I said "would you like a band-aid... I also have Neosporin and Bactine if you are interested." I am a SAM splint away from being a field medic:) lol.
Keep the faith,
Al
My Experience
Ha! Yes, I've noticed the same splitting of the sexes. And exactly what you said Al. The dads are cruising the playground and the moms stay stationary. I'm hearing that some moms prefer us elsewhere because they are discussing things that would make us or them uncomfortable. Breastfeeding, vaginas, husbands, etc. When I first became a stay at home dad I wanted to join a family friend's moms groups. She said I wasn't able to as a man but never gave a clear reason other than it makes other moms uncomfortable. I've been wondering what that factor is ever since. Is there really something important to the structure of motherhood that we may be interrupting?
Daddy Says: Parenting from a Male Point-of-View Married dad of twin three-year-old boys.
I get the "unwelcomed man"
Article to check out
http://www.babble.com/mom/health-and-relationships/are-cute-stay-at-home-dads-a-problem/
I participated in this article and was a bit disappointed. I spend about 20 minutes talking with Jaimie and 99% of it was positive. The only negative thing that I talked about was the mommy and me stuff. Plus, I was interrupted by my son for about a minute during the interview. I haven't had much negative stuff from moms on the playground. I think that some of the stuff that reaches blogs and messages boards is overblown.
Counting Dads Out
Thanks Phillip. I too haven't had too many negative vibes on the playground with moms. It is all very cordial. But I also have to say I haven't been included in the mommy huddle either. I think it is a similar feeling to your feeling counted out of certain parenting groups. There is reasoning behind it, I believe. I guess I just wonder what goes on in there that would make male parents so awkward. In the workplace men and women doing the same job share ideas together comfortably. It has to be gender-based parenting topics inside those huddles I would think. But so far, no matter what mother I've asked, they have no idea what I'm talking about. Men aren't allowed to join many "mom's groups" for some reason. Personally I could care less what the reason is. I think we as fathers don't need the same social structure as mothers to parent. I just can't get a straight answer for the disclusion. Odd.
Daddy Says: Parenting from a Male Point-of-View Married dad of twin three-year-old boys.
Some moms are inclusive; most aren't
I've had a very different experience than my friend Phil when it comes to moms on the playground. You can read about it (and some of the comments from the moms themselves) on my blog at http://www.momaha.com/article/20100511/MOMS12/100519883/-1#al-watts-dad-discrimination but to make a long story short, many times here in Omaha and even more so in Olathe, KS where I used to live, moms would watch their children a lot closer when I was around (I wasn't wearing my Civil War uniform then, btw). Once, at a playgroup with the KCDADs, all the moms promptly left shortly after 5 or so of us guys showed up. It is unusual for dads to be on the playground, especially in more conservative areas of the country as friends of mine from Texas, Kentucky and other "red states" have told me. Dads are getting more common on the playground and I think this stigma from moms is going away, but I believe it still has a long way to go.
Al Vice-President, Daddyshome, Inc. - The National At-Home Dad Network www.daddyshome.org
So we're not crazy for thinking it!
Thanks Al. Great article on the subject. I'd love to quote your first experience with dad discrimination in my article and link back to your site if that's okay. I think it is a perfect example of what I've heard from others and experienced myself. I'm still looking for that elusive mom quote confirming their fears, so if you know any straight-shooting moms out there please send 'em my way.
Daddy Says: Parenting from a Male Point-of-View Married dad of twin three-year-old boys.
Email me
Quoting me and linking back to my blog is fine! Email me at vp@daddyshome.org if you need more. I'll ask the moms from Momaha; one of them will might admit their feelings on the subject.
Al Vice-President, Daddyshome, Inc. - The National At-Home Dad Network www.daddyshome.org
The elusive Mom quote
I am not sure there is a quote that they are holding back. I think it is more of a gut thing that is difficult to verbalize. I imagine most guys would have the same feeling if a they had an ongoing poker game (go to the football game or whatever) and then a woman wanted to join the group. Granted some guys would be like "sure, why not" but many guys would balk at the idea. Another couple of things that a female friend shared with me are:
- Husbands might not be to keen on their wives going to a playgroup with guys.
- It is a safety issue as most of your sex offenders are men so rather than run background checks on guys they just stick with women.
- There is a general perception that guys are well... aloof. Most TV shows, commercials (Sienna Guy), etc... reinforce this perception.
I gotta go answer about 500 why's from my Triplets:)
Have fun,
Al
Thanks Gentlemen
Thanks Gentlemen. Great insight and information. And thanks for offering your expertise, Al. I'll definitely be in touch.
Daddy Says: Parenting from a Male Point-of-View Married dad of twin three-year-old boys.
In spending time with both
In spending time with both dad's groups and mom's groups, it seems to me that the dads are more focused on the behavior of their children. I see many mom's chatting and not always in tune with their kids and what's going on. In the dads group that I am a part of, no one is offended if you have to abruptly end a conversation to chase after their kid. It seems the focus is on the kids. Now these are certainly generalizations based on my experiences and not all moms are out of touch with the kids on the playground (and I'm sure not all dads are 100% engaged with what their kids are doing either), but I always feel I need to apologize if I am engaged in conversation with a mom if I have to interrupt it to deal with my kid(s).
awww... that's so cute!
and that is the reaction I get most often when women ask if we're "some kind of dads' group." At first I was kind of offended by cute but hey, I'll take what I can get.
I generally do feel excluded by women on the playground. The times we have acknowledgement is when my daughter is interacting with their child and we strike up a conversation, one of their kids wanders over to the dads' group blankets, we're helping one of their kids while they're doing something else, etc. Very rarely have I had a women initiate the conversation although it is always welcome when they do. Sometimes they will be curious or ask because they have a male friend who is, or is about to become, a stay at home dad. Women who are already familiar with the idea are much more open to interaction.
Off to the Playground
So though though there are some of the general male fears out there, we feel it is mostly about a discomfort in something they aren't used to seeing, belief of media biases, and cultural norms of women approaching men. Sound about right? Still, I'm off to my local playground to interview some of the moms. I'll let you know if I get anything different. Nothing makes them more comfortable than, "Hi I'm writing an article..."
I love your comments & would like to PM some of you for quotes if that's okay. You are my experts in the field.
Daddy Says: Parenting from a Male Point-of-View Married dad of twin three-year-old boys.
I have never noticed the divivde?
Well I am brand new too this site. I just joined last night. I have been a stay at home dad for 3 years now and love it! I have never found a division in the park with the Moms. They have seemed to welcome me and chat with me in between me watching the kids. In fact some have become family friends with us and we go or host bbq's and dinner parties.
I am much more social than my wife though and make friends easily. So my wife kinda depends on me for the social aspect of the relationship anyways.
I think it depends on the people
I have experienced both sides of this debate. I am involved with a play group that is all women but myself. When my wife and I first joined it 5 years ago there was one other father who came ever other week or so when he was free at work. Now most of the mothers there have only been there for a couple years, they see me as just another member of the group.
But on the other hand, there is a "Mother's Group" in town that is not very receptive to men being there. I know a couple of the mothers who are involved in the group and when my twins were young my wife and I tried to join. They met on days when my wife was unable to go with and we both got the impression that I was not welcome to join the group.
I think it really depends on the people in the groups or at the parks. I talk and see a lot of people when I am at the park and have never really felt like the odd one out. It is true that when I am at the park I see a "gaggle" of mothers sitting around chatting and sometimes not even paying attention to their children. Happens at the Library all the time!! I do not even like going there during the mornings anymore, I am spending too much time trying to keep my daughter (1 years old) from getting run over or hit with something. And plus they look at me like I do not even belong there.
Sorry about the long rant
One Mother's Perspective
One of the mothers at our local playground did admit to being a little uncomfortable with stay at home dads at the playground. Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:1; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-format:other; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1610611985 1073750139 0 0 159 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:10.0pt; margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoPapDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; margin-bottom:10.0pt; line-height:115%;} @page WordSection1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} -->
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“It’s awkward sometimes having a man at the playground. I’ve seen other mothers move their children away from my own husband until I walk up. Then they are fine.” She also mentioned it wouldn't be appropriate for a man to come over to her house for a playdate when her husband wasn't there.
Daddy Says: Parenting from a Male Point-of-View Married dad of twin three-year-old boys.
sometimes
Sometimes, it's pretty obvious that these mom groups at playgrounds are combining "letting the kids amuse themselves" with "showing off to other moms." I went along on a multi-class kindergarten fieldtrip-- picture 50 five year-olds in an apple orchard. I was one of about seven parent volunteers who came along, and the only dad present. I was also the only one actually helping the kids out. The moms mostly talked with each other, or simply paid token attention to their own child. Toward the end of the field trip, we spent a long time in an older playground that still had a merry-go-round. Even when I was a kid, places were ripping these things out of the ground because some random kid would get torn up pretty bad under them. So I went over to make sure the kids had a good and safe time. I'd let them go as fast as they wanted as long as they held on, and didn't dangle off the sides. I also made sure it wasn't too overloaded with kids. They had a great time, and I was thoroughly worn out when it was time to get back on the bus. Do you think any of those moms lifted a finger to try and take my place for a moment? NOPE. They found a picnic table, and sat down the whole time.
On the other hand, I'm not even going to say that this is how every mom acts. Just the ones who need to start getting more involved!
Joined: 2010-06-10
Dad Points: 18