Really need to vent

teacher2sahd
Posts: 14
Joined: 2011-03-27
Dad Points: 34

After a week where my wife and I both had the stomach flu, thankfully our son avoided it some how (so far, keeping our fingers crossed), she is really tired.  Before she goes to lay down in bed, she asks me if I cried when our son was born.  I said, I was more shocked/stunned that he was finally here and I could see/hold him.  I reminded her that she did not cry either.  She came back with she had just given birth, so she had just gone through a lot and then asked me if I ever looked at her with amazement with what she had just done. Mind you this is 6 months ago, neither of us have been really sleeping all night, plus we are both exhausted from battling the stomach flu.  I tell her I honestly don't remember, there was a lot going on, with the med staff, phone calls, pics and so forth.  She tells me that she would really appreciate it if I could remember, and then goes off to bed.  This after....I do all the laundry, dishes, grocery shopping, make the lunches for the next day (I am in  my last week of work before I am a sahd), cooking and all the night time feedings for the last 2 months.  Add on to that, there have been several occasions where I have been out with friends and I have had to come home sooner than expected because she cannot get our son to stop crying, of course, as soon as I pick him up, he stops.

In addition, I feel like she is keeping 'score.'  If she does the bath for a few nights in a row, she will tell me it is my turn to do bathtime, cause she did it x many nights in a row.  Do I bring up to her this makes it seem like she is keeping score?  I feel like that might open a can of worms. Right around the time our son was born, she asked me if I was going to buy her a push present.  I had no idea what this was, she went on to explain it to me.  Ok, I get it, women scarifice a lot to have a baby, but seriously?  A gift to push the kid out?  Thankfully, one of my sister in laws, said this gift was ridiculous, so I was off the hook.

Lastly, sex, what's that?  Been a really long time......but we have a different thread to discuss that.

Sorry, I am rambling....

Bottom line....I feel like every time we get it a disagreement about something, she just plays the I was pregnant so I win card.  She is totally not arguing fair.  Any suggestions on what to do?  I fear that I will have to confront her on her not arguing fair.




Captain Dad
Captain Dad's picture
Posts: 34
Joined: 2011-01-31
Dad Points: 38
"Yes, dear."

Of course she is keeping score. She is torn up about not being able to be the one to be there all the time with her baby. And YOU, a man without so much as a uterus, can get the baby to stop crying when she can't.

She needs understanding. So, yes, you have to talk to her. Just try to bring it up in a way that is sympathetic to HER inner conflict. If you are very very lucky, the conversation will end with both of you in tears. BOTH of you. If that happens, that "other thread" issue might go away (for a moment, at least) too.



Ariel3618
Ariel3618's picture
Posts: 284
Joined: 2008-10-13
Dad Points: 505
yes, yes, and yes

Yes, this has definitely happened to me.  If you didn't cry, don't worry.  I didn't either and it took me a while to come to grips with the fact that I didn't feel an immediate emotional connection.  My wife had this kid inside her for 9 months but I didn't.  I was sleep deprived, wanted to make sure my wife was OK after her C-section (I had connected with her already), etc, etc. and I felt like crap for not immediately connecting with our daughter.  But that's the social construct we live in.  We've been told we should have an immediate bond and most of us don't realize that it's OK NOT to.  Of course the bond developed when I held tiny hands, looked into her eyes, saw her smile and laugh, etc. (just gave an interview about men bonding with their kids and this was a main point of mine).

In terms of keeping score, see above.  If you say you're exhausted, fully expect a response of "well, so am I!"  I had not intended to get into an argument about being tired and wasn't trying to one up her but that's how she perceived it.  One of a "few" instances.  One thing to keep in mind if she's breast feeding is that she does still have a ton of hormones rushing through her blood and, at least in my case, a lot of mommy guilt.

In terms of sex, well, it's been a long time for me as well.  A few things:  She might feel pretty crappy about her own self image which could lead her to wonder how any one else can find her sexy.  If she feels like crap about herself, she's not going to want to share her body with someone else no matter how sincerely you tell her how you feel about her body. Number two, hormones.  Nuff' said.  Number three, exhaustion.  Number four, it might hurt a lot. I've heard that there can be issues with female dryness long after pregnancy which sometimes takes a prescription ointment to treat.  That being said, it still sucks.

In terms of how to confront, I would try to actually schedule a time to sit down and talk.  Make some notes for yourself so you remember what you're feeling without having to go off the cuff and getting caught up in the heat of a "discussion."  Check out the notes before you have the sit down to refresh your memory and try not to get led off on tangent discussions.

Think that's all for now.  Hope something I said is helpful.

Ariel



ikon43
Posts: 9
Joined: 2011-05-31
Dad Points: 10
Quick Guide ( something i came up with that helps )

Packer,

You're doing ok by now i assume but you are missing the easy parts to this puzzle. First off and i will quote myself on this one " She is a woman and you are a man, therefore in her eyes (double quote) " YOU WILL NEVER WIN AND ARGUEMENT" in this lifetime with her" or at least not a fair one. If you really want to win you will have to play as dirty as she is, but be for warned...... THAT WILL ONLY MAKE IT GET UGLY!!!!! and you don't want that trust me i know.  My son is now 9 months old. I have to do all those things too before i quit work back in late 2010 but honestly..... i wouldn't have traded it for anything. you see those are things that will bond you and you kid. The moms have a different bond with them then we do. It's more than the attention and care and feedings. It's deeper than and of us coulds ever imagine. Beyond the smiles, laughs, and poop. You probably are saying yeah i know and i thought i know too..... but you really don't.... NOT YET!!!! but you will. Just takes a little while buddy. Back to your quick guide..... Secondly she is mostly ,if she hasn't already started, going to hit you with a bunch of "I'm not Aattractive!" , "I'm so fat!", "There are girls better looking than i am around you all the time",or (personal favorite) " YOU ACT LIKE YOU DON"T WANT TO BE WITH ME ANYMORE!"....  ignore the statements and work on her confidence. It's just the hormons talking. This last for a quite awhile also. Thirdly don't battle the score keeping. YES SHE'S KEEP SCORE!......LOL. They do that. I have 4 dogs, 4 cats, a turtle, and bunch of fish on top of my son. Really full day at times and some a breeze. I still do the cooking, cleaning and etc. but you will see that it's nothing to it. Forth is one concept and one only...... MICROMANAGE....... plan your time for the first couple months almost to the 1/2 hour. You'll get ing a swing of things and before you know it's like second nature. Sometimes i burn through so much i have to find things to do. My new thing is that i'm learning how to extreme coupon shop. Plus the time i'm using with that I'm also using to spend with him. He watches the computer screen and has a ball with it all. Fifth is to ensure that when she comes home you feel HER hard day at work. Ask how it was. Sympothize and be recieving. You may or may not want to listen but if you show the attention it will be rewarding in the long run. Sixth is to always show your preparedness. Just be prepared for anything. For me it was if we had to going out as soon as she got home, run out to store for dinner, evening childcare, or just having your kid ready for her to walk in and grab them up because she missed them so much while at work. Seventh..... RELAXATION..... by having a glass of her favorite drink ready when she got home and if she likes to change of of her work clothes...... then make the bedroom look neat and nice as you have also laid out something comfortable to change into ( LIKE SWEATS, T-SHIRT, SHORTS, CROCS, ETC). Don'tbe a smart*** and lay out the other stuff. Let her decide when and where to change into that. You can even run her a bath with candles and maybe some tubside chocolate. Eight.... Go the extra mile as much as possible. She will tell you when it's to much. Ninth... If nothing else..... offer her a rub down.... feet, back, shoulders, or something. Tenth..... NOW IT'S YOUR TURN..... ask her if she wants to talk somemore or more important, if she hasn't ask you yet, does she want to hear about your day. THE KEY TO IT ALL THOUGH IS TO BE AFFECTIONATE TO HER THE WHOLE TIME



New No.2
New No.2's picture
Posts: 650
Joined: 2007-11-12
Dad Points: 910
No no and no

I’m going to go out on the limb here and say that your wife’s behavior is not acceptable, if, that is, what you are looking for is a partnership of equals.
All women keep score, yes, all women learn to manipulate at an early age yes, but that does not make how she is treating you acceptable for adults with the joint responsibility for raising kids and keeping a home. Rosalind Wiseman, author of “Queen Bees and Wanna Bes” talks a lot about how women learn to manipulate via an area of weakness. Women use apologies as a way to manipulate the person they are apologizing to etc. Why I can understand that this is how women treat each other, and it is how they learn to live in the world, it does need to stop or at least be balanced in a relationship.

It seems to me that your wife is “punishing” you for “ruining her body” or any number of other changes that happen after we (that’s WE) have children. She is most likely doing this unconsciously and feels completely justified in doing so. This is obviously, absurd. A man, to quote Chris Rock, is at a disadvantage when women because we have a need to make sense. The manipulation you are under doesn’t makes sense and trying to get the balance, or harmony back into your relationship by force aint gonna happen.

I suggest two stratagems, first Ownership. Own how you feel and don’t be afraid to tell your wife what you think. Don’t apologize for how you feel because then you are apologizing for the truth, your truth and how you see things. Also own the house, man, the house should be run on YOUR schedule, and meet YOUR standards. Period. If that bothers your wife then tell her flatty she can do it if it’s that important. Own that you didn’t care who does what how many times so long as it gets done.

Second: The Mirror. This is tricky so I’ll do my best. Absurdity can not be met with reason, nor can compassion meet interference (your wife) with a lot of success. It is easy in our post-feminized world, for men to get caught up in the spiral dance of talking about feelings and emotions. Generally we men weren’t raised that way and we don’t have the manipulation training our wives do. I know that us un-pc but hey. What your wife is doing, according to Wiseman, is called Banking. She is storing away what she does as a means to get you to do more work, feel more contrite, punish you, or whatever she is going through. I’m not unsympathetic but the ideas isn’t to win it’s to have harmony. Since she is Banking you are Pleasing hoping to have her opinion swayed by doing “the right thing” but that causes the problem of your wife now likes the situation she is in and will want to keep you Pleasing. The only way to meet absurdity is by reflecting it back at the absurd. Understand I know your wife is having some difficulties but you are her husband and want to help her not be her whipping post. There are better places to cope with whatever she is feeling than by taking it out on you. So, you need to reflect that “I carried the baby” sentiment back at her as much as you can. Let her hear it out of your mouth. You can also eco back, “Oh I didn’t know raising our kids was a points earned activity.” And yes say, “Are you keeping score?” as much as you like. Expecting that this will upset her, but she is the only one that can “un do “what is going on in her head.

It’s going to be an awfully long life if she is allowed to say “labor was excruciating” when you ask her to pass the mustard.



tac_dad
Posts: 1
Joined: 2011-07-27
Dad Points: 1
Same here

The same thing happened with me.

Where does this sense of entitlement come from? Child birthing is a biological function that can ONLY be performed by women. It's not our fault we can't bear children. My wife says all the time that I couldn't handle being pregnant or giving birth. I tell her, if I were meant to, I would be able to, same as you. Plain and simple.  Really, doesn't it sound a bit selfish and materialistic to expect a gift for giving birth? Shouldn't the experience, the "miracle of life" be gift enough?

As far as the crying goes, everyone experiences things differently. Just because you didnt cry doesn't mean you didnt appreciate the experience, or weren't moved. As long as you love your kids and you show them that, I think you are doing a fine job.

 



AtHomeDad32
Posts: 2
Joined: 2011-07-28
Dad Points: 6
(No subject)


ZMan
Posts: 12
Joined: 2012-02-26
Dad Points: 20
I have zero advice

Dude I have like zero advice because I am sure as hell am not a relationship wizard or one to model after; why I don't know. All I can say is I feel with you on this score sheet; I would just ask your wife, so this was all work for you and the children where just providing for me. Does she not feel any joy in having the children, is she not glad she had them, or are the only the required chore. I mean the push present really, the only push I hear is you pushing me over the edge. I did this, so now you need to do that, I would open the can of worms, or live walking on egg shells. Calculate your age and marriage and calculate life expectancy and if you do; flat out ask yourself can we get on an understanding, if not can you last that delta between now and life expectancy.



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